Opened 16 years ago

Closed 14 years ago

Last modified 12 months ago

#7309 closed enhancement (wontfix)

OGG: Fix for codebook waste

Reported by: SF/puntloos Owned by: fingolfin
Priority: low Component: Audio
Keywords: Cc:


A detailed discussion thread about both issues is here:

In a nutshell:

--- Codebook waste:
Every ogg file has a codebook of 4-12kbyte. On vorbis
files of (say) 1 second of (say) 32kbps that would mean
around 20% wasted space.

The way to fix this is to compile one huge source .wav
file (or at least not one for every sample!) and encode
this into one big vorbis file. After that all that's left is to
implement some code to seek the right spot to play.

A useful side-effect is that people interested in the
actual samples can just drag the resulting file into
winamp and play.

--- Resampling issue:
As I've come to understand it certain Lucasarts games
use a strange frequency of 11111Hz instead of the usual
11025. When fed to vorbis, vorbis resamples and
encodes, and appearantly vorbis isn't very good at
resampling. 2 solutions present themselves:

1/ Use some other resampler before feeding the file to
vorbis, Im sure there's opensource stuff out there.
2/ (my preferred solution). Just force/fake and write the
temporary wav files as being 11025Hz. The result is that
the samples will be played back sliiightly slower (0.7%)
but unless this gives unfixable timing problems in the
game I very strongly doubt anyone will notice. (or just
make it optional, so the purists can choose to resample
and lose a ton of quality :) )

Ticket imported from: #786569. Ticket imported from: feature-requests/125.

Change History (8)

comment:1 by fingolfin, 16 years ago

Priority: normallow

comment:2 by fingolfin, 16 years ago

No, LA games don't use 11111 khz. This is just a "wrong" number
caused by the fact that the VOC format can't encode arbitrary
frequency values, so you have to round your freq to the nearest
available VOC freq value, which is 11111. The data is still 11025,
and newer versions of extract support that appropriately. So that
should cover your second question.

As for the "codebook waste": feel free to write & submit a patch :-

comment:3 by SF/puntloos, 16 years ago

OK good to hear the system doesn't resample anymore.

As for the codebook thing, hmm thanks for allowing me the
freedom to write a patch, though I think it's more likely I'll first
take the freedom to learn japanese and become an astronaut.

comment:4 by fingolfin, 16 years ago

Summary: Fix for codebook waste and resampling issuesOGG: Fix for codebook waste

comment:5 by fingolfin, 16 years ago

One potential way to tackle the issue *might* be to first concat all
the raw data, taking care of the *sample* (as opposed to byte)
offsets/lengths of each sound. Then, we encode that single huge
RAW file. Finally, seeking in that file would be done by using the
VorbisFile methods which do PCM sample based seeking. The
problems with that
1) New format means people will have to re-encode their files
2) The above scheme has the drawback that we get "gap" effects
at the start of the sounds (because the previous sound is coming
right before the current sound in the file, and the encoder will
"interweave" them to a small degree... I lack the words to
properly explain this in english ATM, but I think anybody familiar
with the way MP3/Ogg work will understand what I mean)

comment:6 by sev-, 14 years ago

I really think that it will not be worth efforts. How big
will be size gain? 1%? 2%? I.e. 800KB out of 80MB for, say,
DOTT CD? Or 7MB out of 365MB for FT?

Though as mentioned, it will requires significant rewriting
of both tools and our sound playback routines.


comment:7 by fingolfin, 14 years ago

Owner: set to fingolfin
Resolution: wontfix
Status: newclosed

comment:8 by digitall, 12 months ago

Component: Audio
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