Opened 9 months ago

Closed 8 months ago

#11337 closed defect (worksforme)

King Quest VI CD and Roland MT-32 emulation with external Munt

Reported by: cachaito Owned by: ZvikaZ
Priority: low Component: Audio: MT32
Keywords: Cc:
Game: King's Quest 6

Description

Hello, I'm using ScummVM 2.1.1 and latest Windows Munt release (in attachement). Munt tray icon recognize scummvm.exe but in game there is no music at all with MT-32 Synth Emulator [Windows MIDI] device in Audio tab. What's interesting, internal MT-32 emulator with the same *.ROM files is working.

Attachments (3)

munt.png (25.0 KB ) - added by cachaito 9 months ago.
Munt version
munt_gui.png (336.6 KB ) - added by cachaito 8 months ago.
Munt GUI
ka6_setup.png (63.3 KB ) - added by cachaito 8 months ago.
KQ6 setup screen

Download all attachments as: .zip

Change History (18)

by cachaito, 9 months ago

Attachment: munt.png added

Munt version

comment:1 by cachaito, 9 months ago

Summary: King Quest Roland MT-32 emulation with external MuntKing Quest VI CD and Roland MT-32 emulation with external Munt

comment:2 by ZvikaZ, 8 months ago

Try selecting "True Roland MT-32" under MT-32 tab.

comment:3 by cachaito, 8 months ago

Hi ZvikaZ, this "trick" helped (music is playing) although Munt software in tray bar doesn't recognize connected device anymore.

Cheers!

comment:4 by ZvikaZ, 8 months ago

It's not "trick" - it's the required configuration...
Anyway, I don't understand what do you mean by Munt software in tray bar doesn't recognize connected device anymore.
If it's important to you, please elaborate.
(BTW, have you tried to open the Munt GUI?)

by cachaito, 8 months ago

Attachment: munt_gui.png added

Munt GUI

comment:5 by cachaito, 8 months ago

By"Munt software in tray bar" I meant Munt GUI. Now during game I don't see it living (section: Partial state boxes are dimmed). I've tried to check all Audio Output devices with no success.
Please take a look at attached "munt_gui.png".

comment:6 by ZvikaZ, 8 months ago

Strange. For me it's working...
Are you sure that it's indeed going through your external munt?
Can you post your scummvm.ini?
(it should be in something like C:\Users\your-user-name\AppData\Roaming\ScummVM\scummvm.ini)

BTW,
Let me elaborate why is it the required configuration:

MT-32 predates General Midi standard, and therefore, not complaint with it.
That's why ScummVM behaves differently when sending data to MT-32 device, or to GM device.

When you're using your external MUNT, it appears with [Windows MIDI] - exactly like the regular 'MS GS Synth' (which is a GM device).
ScummVM only knows that it's sending to [Windows MIDI], it has no way to know what standard the device behind the [Windows MIDI] port is supporting.
Therefore, if you're connecting an MT-32 to a MIDI port - you have to select "True Roland MT-32".

When you're using the internal builtin Munt, this option is selected implicitly, without requiring the user the explicitly set it, because - well, we know that it's an MT-32.

comment:7 by ZvikaZ, 8 months ago

Have you verified that your external Munt is working?
Without ScummVM, just with some MIDI file.
Tools->Play MIDI file.

comment:8 by cachaito, 8 months ago

ZvikaZ thank you for detailed explanation!
I will attach my *.ini file today after work. Munt was working with The Hand of Fate on ScummVM few days ago, but I didn’t try to play MIDI music with player. I will attach photo of working game with external Munt and ScummVM later on.

comment:9 by ZvikaZ, 8 months ago

BTW,
I forgot to say...
Are you aware of the fact that KQ6 will probably sound better with GM mode, rather than MT-32 mode, right?

comment:10 by cachaito, 8 months ago

Hi ZvikaZ, it's embarrassing - I have had selected in tab Audio a "MT-32 emulator" music device instead of "MT-32 Synth Emulator [Windows MIDI]"... that's why Munt GUI didn't see scummvm.exe... And like you said, "True Roland MT-32" needs to be checked to enable music for MT-32 in KQ6.

Can you elaborate about: "sound better with GM mode, rather than MT-32 mode"?

Last edited 8 months ago by cachaito (previous) (diff)

comment:11 by ZvikaZ, 8 months ago

Just google it for more information.

But the short version is:
MT-32 is older spec, GM is newer spec.
Each Sierra game's music was composed for specific device, and will (supposedly) sound best with that device, even if there is a possibility to use another devices.
(if we're not being purists, let's treat all GM-era devices simply as GM).

You can find such info on many place, a good example is:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MT-32-compatible_computer_games

Note that according to that list, KQ6 doesn't even support MT-32 (because it's too new). However, ScummVM "jumps through the hops" to support this, but it's not what the composers had a mind, and what the QA team tested.

After this, there'll be of course some people that will claim that specific game sounds better with some surprising device, but that's a matter of personal taste.
You can search the various forums, see YouTube comparisons, or test for yourself, if you prefer to.

comment:12 by cachaito, 8 months ago

Again ZvikaZ - thank you for all explanation! I don't understand two things though:
1) you wrote: "KQ6 doesn't even support MT-32 (because it's too new) but under DOSBox game setup Roland MT-32 is stated (attached photo: ka6_setup.png).
2) By writing GM (I understand it as General Midi shortcut) you meant other card emulation (SB/ GUS) or MIDI driver in system (called Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth for Windows)?

BTW. what do you think about using VirtualMIDISynth instead of Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth?

Best regards, Bart

by cachaito, 8 months ago

Attachment: ka6_setup.png added

KQ6 setup screen

comment:13 by ZvikaZ, 8 months ago

  1. Well, that's a question for Wikipedia, as I just cited them ;-)

Anyway, I'll answer.
I assume that Wikipedia article meant that KQ6 doesn't *naturally* support MT32.
Sierra indeed supplied an MT32 driver, but it's only doing automatic translation of the GM (=General Midi, as you understood) score to MT32 commands.

Think of reading an English (=GM) book that was translated to French (=MT32) by the author himself (=natural support) or by Google Translate (=KQ6 MT32 support).

2.
Sound Blaster / Adlib is the very easy to setup, but its quality is very problematic. It's not a MIDI device.
If you can, always prefer MIDI devices such as MT32 (even for KQ6...) or General Midi.

3.
As for GUS - I'm not familiar with it. I've read that it's supposed to be good, but as far as I remember, isn't supported by ScummVM and Dosbox, so you'll need a physical one, if you want it...

4.
Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth - nice, but not good enough.
Prefer any SF (=Sound Font) supporting device, and load to it an SF of your choice.
I enjoy FatBoy (Google it), but again, which SF to prefer is probably a matter of personal taste.

5.
Why bother with VirtualMIDISynth?
Use ScummVM's natural Fluidsynth support. It's easy and very good.

6.
To summarize, we can say that for newer games:
GM(SF)->GM(Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth)->MT32->Adlib

And for older games:
MT32->GM(SF)->GM(Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth)->Adlib

Is your game new or old? Check with that Wikipedia article, or other similar resources.

comment:14 by cachaito, 8 months ago

ZvikaZ, you gave me a lot of thinking! Great explanation about MT-32 too.

Let me shortly answer for your fifth point, rest of them are clear!

  1. Why bother with VirtualMIDISynth? It was for DOSBox mainly. Along with "Arachno SoundFont - Version 1.0.sf2" it was doing well. Good to know about native FluidSynth in ScummVM and mentioned by you earlier FatBoy Sounf Font. Will check this out right away!

comment:15 by ZvikaZ, 8 months ago

Owner: set to ZvikaZ
Resolution: worksforme
Status: newclosed
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